US Politics XXXVIII: "Patriots" vs Reality

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One of the most uncomfortable conversations to have is the Republicans who hate Trump (and will refuse to vote for him). I have a couple of really good friends who have always been Republican but thankfully never went down the MAGA route. They are clearly in a tough place. They hate Biden, can't bring themselves to vote Democrat but aren't really happy with any of the Republican nominees. They did say that if someone other than Trump wins the nomination, that they will vote for that candidate....which is why we should still cheer for Trump to win the nomination.

Yup, the kinda folks who could (and would) swing a general election with Trump on the ticket. There's plenty of them out there, and most probably aren't beating their chests in opposition of Trump around their friends, co-workers, etc. They just won't vote for him this time around, period.
 
One of the most uncomfortable conversations to have is the Republicans who hate Trump (and will refuse to vote for him). I have a couple of really good friends who have always been Republican but thankfully never went down the MAGA route. They are clearly in a tough place. They hate Biden, can't bring themselves to vote Democrat but aren't really happy with any of the Republican nominees. They did say that if someone other than Trump wins the nomination, that they will vote for that candidate....which is why we should still cheer for Trump to win the nomination.



What are their political beliefs/values that keep them in the post-Trump GOP?
 
What are their political beliefs/values that keep them in the post-Trump GOP?



Refusing to admit any moment of being wrong.

My favorite example: Trump trashed W over the Iraq War. Nary a peep from the Republican politicians nor the voters. Couldn’t agree with him, it would be admitting they were wrong. But couldn’t disagree because then they’d be admitting he was wrong.
 
What are their political beliefs/values that keep them in the post-Trump GOP?

Like Headache said, sports team loyalty. Would never vote Democrat even if you paid them. They think Biden is responsible for inflation and gas prices, and afraid of trans people and think that the Democrats are all for grooming kids into transitioning. So pretty much a lot of the MAGA bullshit but they hate Trump and would never wear the hat. A couple of them are really good friends though, and we just choose not to talk politics much.
 
Conspiracy theories started immediately about the death of the Obama family's chef at their house on Martha's Vineyard.

One I read said that Barack had a male lover killed before he ran for President, so she's convinced that he had this man murdered too.

Lots of cuckoo people in this country, of course yes we already knew that.
 
Like Headache said, sports team loyalty. Would never vote Democrat even if you paid them. They think Biden is responsible for inflation and gas prices, and afraid of trans people and think that the Democrats are all for grooming kids into transitioning. So pretty much a lot of the MAGA bullshit but they hate Trump and would never wear the hat. A couple of them are really good friends though, and we just choose not to talk politics much.



I have many friends who were probably at least W voters in 2000. These are chamber of commerce, low taxes, low regulation folks, “unleash the power of the free market” type folks, because that’s who their parents were and their parents had done well. They have good educations. W’s religiosity made them uneasy, but it was tolerable. The Iraq War was fine in the beginning — we’re moving a horrible dictator! — but as W lost a war, let the global economy crash, let New Orleans sink, and let OBL get away, they grew disgusted. Although McCain is a hero to these folks, Palin was unacceptable. Likely, they voted Obama. Romney was their guy, but the GOP had grown so dumb via the Tea Party that they probably at least 50% stayed Obama in 2012.

Trump was the end. He was so stupid and mean and ignorant and they likely silently agreed with Hil’s “deplorables” comment. And they went Biden bigly in 2020. I can’t think of any of these folks who would ever consider voting Trump, and DeSantis doesn’t speak to their economic concerns — like Trump, he’s appealing if it’s revenge and punishment for your enemies you seek.

I guess what I’m saying is these are Reagan’s children who are so turned off by the dumb-dumbs and white nationalists that they are voting D because the party of their youth is long gone.

It’s strange to me how it’s now the right that is anti-establishment and riddled with conspiracies and wants to drop out of society and homestead.
 
A couple of them are really good friends though, and we just choose not to talk politics much.

This was how it worked back in Iowa (when I lived there). Had some good friends who were the typical GOP. Low taxes, need guns for hunting (before it turned into need guns to protect my other guns), and gotta keep gov out of our business....

It was just better to not speak of it, though I found it the same with all of the Right leaning friends. When inflation is up, or gas prices....they'll let those political points slip into conversation. When things calm down, any sort of conversation about how Obama seems to be doing a great job is met with anger.

Best to stick to complaining about work and their wives.
 
This was how it worked back in Iowa (when I lived there). Had some good friends who were the typical GOP. Low taxes, need guns for hunting (before it turned into need guns to protect my other guns), and gotta keep gov out of our business....

It was just better to not speak of it, though I found it the same with all of the Right leaning friends. When inflation is up, or gas prices....they'll let those political points slip into conversation. When things calm down, any sort of conversation about how Obama seems to be doing a great job is met with anger.

Best to stick to complaining about work and their wives.

For sure, every once in a while I'll get a "Biden Inflation" comment and then I just talk about how much I miss that "Trump Pandemic" and we move on. :D
 
Best to move on with good neighbors and friends.

Both Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump are seen quite unfavorably by Americans. And there's no sign the bottom is in yet for either. Yay :huh:
 
I cannot understand why Joe Biden is so wildly unpopular.

I get the impression that he’s immediately unpopular by everybody who voted for Donald Trump, and that brings a scary thought into what has become of the American center.
 
R.P. in Northfield, IL, asks: OK. Why the heck is Joe Biden's approval rating so low? By many measures, he's really accomplishing some good things—unemployment is decreasing, the economy is faring quite well, inflation is falling. Foreign affairs is a strength of his, and he's demonstrating that he's using that skill to accomplish a lot. Domestically speaking, that new commercial he made using Marjorie Taylor Greene's own words to tout his accomplishments says it all. It's a laundry list of his successes. I know there are always going to be haters, but the low rating must mean that even a fair number of Democrats don't approve of the job he's doing. So again, what the heck?

(V) & (Z) answer: We think about this all the time, and don't have a great answer for you. The odds are pretty good there won't be a good answer until a fair bit of time has passed and scholars can look at the big picture.

What is clear is that voters on both sides of the aisle have gotten more parsimonious with their approval. It used to be customary that, on the whole, more Americans approved of the president than disapproved. For example, Dwight D. Eisenhower's average Gallup approval was 65%, John F. Kennedy's was 70.1%, and Lyndon Johnson's, even with the Vietnam War, was 55.1%. Since LBJ, however, only three presidents have finished with an average above 50%: Ronald Reagan (52.8%), George H.W. Bush (60.9%) and Bill Clinton (55.1%). If you toss out Bush as a fluke powered by his sky-high Gulf War numbers, it's really just two of the presidents in the last half-century, and Biden is not likely to buck the trend.

It is certainly the case that presidents can no longer count on their own party to be squarely behind them; there are always some Democrats these days who think a Democratic president is too lefty/not lefty enough, and always some Republicans these days who think a Republican president is too righty/not righty enough. However, what appears to be the most significant dynamic is the almost total lack of aisle-crossing. There is virtually nothing a Republican president can do these days to win the approval of Democratic voters, and virtually nothing a Democratic president can do these days to win the approval of Republican voters. That is probably a product of the partisan media, at least in part, but may also be due to other, somewhat hard to identify, factors.

that's pretty much the rub. in the past there would always be some sizable group of people from "the other party" who would freely admit approval of the president. nowadays you'll find nearly zero republicans who will say they approve of biden, and vice versa when trump was in office. i think you'd have to go back to 9/11 to find a large chunk of voters who approve of the other party's president. combined with the people who think biden isn't left enough, and you only have a maximum of like 45% approval if basically everyone who's left over says they approve and like him. in that context a rating in the low 40s to mid-high 30s isn't really that damning.

forgot to add the link to the quote: https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2023/Pres/Maps/Jul22.html
 
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I'm not going to be like Republicans who say the things they say when Biden stumbles, falls, makes mental mistakes. It's very sad to see any senior go through this stuff, I've been through it with my parents and I see it at one of my workplaces. So I wish him well as far as his health issues.

But the double standard is most certainly glaringly obvious, falls he has had have been covered up and there are no public accusations by the GOP that he's not competent.
 
Sounds like today is the day Trump is getting indicted for Jan 6th. Trump's lawyers are meeting with Jack Smith now and the Grand Jury is meeting today.

This indictment should be an immediate arrest, no bail, and he should have to sit in jail while awaiting trial.
 
Sounds like today is the day Trump is getting indicted for Jan 6th. Trump's lawyers are meeting with Jack Smith now and the Grand Jury is meeting today.

This indictment should be an immediate arrest, no bail, and he should have to sit in jail while awaiting trial.
It was 3 days after the meeting last time. So certainly soon
 
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