Random Music Talk CXXXI: Interference Finally Gets Its Revenge on Cobbler

[Hewson]

Wow. What sad news.

RIP.

 

[Hewson]

Double post

 

[MrPryck2U]

RIP Tina Turner.

Saw her documentary last year and oh what a life. Thinking about it now, my favorite song of hers is We Don't Need Another Hero from the Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome soundtrack. Back when Mel Gibson wasn't such an asshole.

 

[cobl04]

Cobz - My sad album recommendation for you is Hospice by Antlers.

It's so interesting you bring them up... when iYup mentioned Wild Beasts I thought of them. And then I listened to the record, and I was like... damn this dude sounds very similar to the Antlers guy (Robin Pecknold or something? Or is he Fleet Foxes? Been a while since we've had a friggin' cobbler moment). Quite androgynous. And I do know Antlers, Palace is one of my favourite songs of all time.

 

[HeartlandGirl]

It's so interesting you bring them up... when iYup mentioned Wild Beasts I thought of them. And then I listened to the record, and I was like... damn this dude sounds very similar to the Antlers guy (Robin Pecknold or something? Or is he Fleet Foxes? Been a while since we've had a friggin' cobbler moment). Quite androgynous. And I do know Antlers, Palace is one of my favourite songs of all time.

The singer's name is Peter Silberman.

 

[No spoken words]

Sea Change is the true-true. Blood on the Tracks get a lot of ink, but Bob’s “Most of the Time” off Oh Mercy is just as real. And Eels “Dirty Girl” (sexist title, but that’s not what the song is).

I will never forget driving cross country with my Dad in 2003 - he did all the driving, I chose all the music. He's not a die-hard music fan but he enjoys a lot of different stuff and he was pretty cool about tolerating whatever he didn't like from amongst my choices.

So we get about 2,000 miles into the drive and I choose "Sea Change" for some inexplicable reason - this is not a road trip album. The album ends, we're driving in silence and he just says "that was really sad" and that's the only comment he made about the music all trip long.

That story was not, at all, worth sharing but it's too late now, isn't it?

I wish I liked the new National album more than I do but I am really happy for everyone here that dig it and for any of you that have seen or will see them on this tour. I was supposed to see them this weekend but now I will be traveling. C'est la vie. I've seen them three times and all of those shows were really great.

Also, I know that there are no more U2 fans left on this site but I'll be at the first show at the Sphere. Douche bags gonna douche bag.

 

[cobl04]

you waltz back in here with a beautiful post and you don't do your bit? disgraceful

 

[lazarus]

Yeah, I was hoping we'd hear that him and pops pulled into a rest stop and saw that someone had abandoned a baby on one of the picnic tables.

 

[HeartlandGirl]

Listened to Hail to the Thief this morning. It's still good.

 

[mikal]

Deeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmnnnn!

Best Foo Fighters album since Wasting Light. Crushing lyrics to say the least.

 

[cobl04]

Listened to Hail to the Thief this morning. It's still good.

We should talk about this. I don't think we've ever discussed HTTT.

Spoiler

Seriously though, yes, it's fucking epic. The tracklist/sequencing is terrible and it's got about 3-4 pretty ordinary songs, but the good stuff is incredible.

 

[u2popmofo]

Listened to Hail to the Thief this morning. It's still good.

Happy 20 yr anniversary, great album.

 

[cobl04]

Why I still check Pitchfork daily: it just introduced me to the greatest song I've ever heard.

 

[iron yuppie]

Two really good noise-pop records from the last few months:
Rat Saw God from Wednesday
Girl with Fish from feeble little horse

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Been revisiting the most recent Blur album, The Magic Whip (2015). This shit is really good. I listened to it a bunch the year it came out and then my CD copy gathered dust for nearly a decade. Lonesome Street is a cool opener, I Broadcast is a fun throwback rocker, and Ong Ong is an insanely catchy summer anthem. There are a handful of other strong songs, too. Great band.

Looking forward to the new album.

I've also been revisiting Super Furry Animals' Hey Venus, which feels like another great summer album on its own.

 

[lazarus]

I know there aren't a lot of Steely Dan fans on here, but today is probably the biggest day in SD news since Walter Becker died. The legendary lost track The Second Arrangement, which was originally meant for the Gaucho album (and considered as a potential single) until an assistant engineer accidentally erased it. The track was eventually discarded when Fagen & Becker weren't able to redo it to their satisfaction, and to replace it an outtake from The Royal Scam ("Were You Blind That Day?) got new lyrics and a vocal and became the album's closer Third World Man.

There have been a number of versions of The Second Arrangement floating around YouTube for years, including some demos and other mixes of poor quality, and some fans have recently used new audio tech including A.I. to try and get a better-sounding result.

Well today, the holy grail was shared with the world. The daughters of Steely Dan's longtime engineer Roger Nichols, who died over 10 years ago, revealed that they have a huge archive of stuff saved by their father over the years, and they found a cassette with the most complete version of The Second Arrangement in existence, but missing vocals in spots. They took it to and professional engineer who cleaned it up, and there was also a DAT that was even better with the complete vocal take.

There's an article on a SD fan site about the whole thing, and you can stream both the cassette and DAT transfers. I already used QuickTime to record it off the web page.

This whole saga is like U2's Mercy in reverse. But there are people who have literally been waiting 40 years for this, and while it will never be at the level of quality on the CD or vinyl, it's tempting to insert it back into a custom tracklisting of Gaucho.

Anyway, if you're interested:

Tale of the tape

 

[cobl04]

That's really cool, thanks for sharing. For some strange reason, despite my love for the Dan, I've still only listened to the first three records and Aja. I'll listen to Gaucho today because of this.

 

[lazarus]

Gaucho is really divisive, because it took 3 years to record and some think it was produced within an inch of its life, like it's too clean, too perfect. And after the wait many were disappointed that it didn't seem to be as catchy as the stuff on Aja.

Over the years, and especially since the recent Dan renaissance, there are a number of people who have been calling it their favorite SD album. I wouldn't go that far, but it has like 4 absolute bangers (the title track, Babylon Sisters, Hey Nineteen, and Time Out of Mind), and if you add The Second Arrangement back into it, you may have more of an argument for a higher standing.

 

[phanan]

Thanks for the heads up. Love Second Arrangement and it's amazing to hear it in this quality. The DAT tape is incredible.

Curious where you'd slot it on Gaucho...

 

[cobl04]

The new Killer Mike record is great.

 

[cobl04]

Gaucho is really divisive, because it took 3 years to record and some think it was produced within an inch of its life, like it's too clean, too perfect. And after the wait many were disappointed that it didn't seem to be as catchy as the stuff on Aja.

Over the years, and especially since the recent Dan renaissance, there are a number of people who have been calling it their favorite SD album. I wouldn't go that far, but it has like 4 absolute bangers (the title track, Babylon Sisters, Hey Nineteen, and Time Out of Mind), and if you add The Second Arrangement back into it, you may have more of an argument for a higher standing.

My favourite tracks were Glamour Profession and Gaucho. Hey Nineteen is creepy.

 

[lazarus]

Thanks for the heads up. Love Second Arrangement and it's amazing to hear it in this quality. The DAT tape is incredible.

Curious where you'd slot it on Gaucho...

Well I tend to lean on the more purist side with this kind of thing, unless it's U2 where they clearly din't know what the hell they're doing in the 21st century re: sequencing. With my custom Beatles tracklistings I drop in new tracks without shifting the order of the other songs.

I'm definitely keeping Third World Man as a closer, even if it was a late addition and old outtake. It works perfectly there at the end and I don't think The Second Arrangement would be better. If you look at the original album side divisions, Babylon, Nineteen, and Glamour run roughly 18:30 minutes for side one, and Gaucho, Time, Rival, and Third run 19:30 for side two. If you trim the head and tail of that DAT recording to the song proper, it runs right around 5:30, which is the same length as Gaucho.

So to me, the main question to answer is whether to move Gaucho to "side one" (some people add a short, silent "pause" track on their playlists to mark the traditional break, and this is where I would put it), or to put Arrangement right after Glamour on S1, and then you preserve Gaucho as the S2 opener. I suppose it's a question of tempo and mood. My first impulse and attempt at the playlist was putting it as the penultimate track, between My Rival (which is the album's weakest, IMO) and Third, breaking up the two slower songs. I think Time Out of Mind, being a single, is a good poppy way to start S2 if one is thinking along those lines at all.

As I said before, Gaucho and Arrangement are equal length, so whatever you do, you wind up with an S1 at 24:00 and S2 at 19:30, slightly lopsided compared to most albums of the time (Aja and Royal Scam have only 1 minute disparities). Real purists will point out that old vinyl albums could only fit 23 minutes on each side, so that would likely mean booting Glamour to S2 and having to do a lot more switching to shrink the disparity and keep both sides 23 min and under, but as I said I don't want to get too crazy.

Would love to hear other suggestions!

 

[lazarus]

My favourite tracks were Glamour Profession and Gaucho. Hey Nineteen is creepy.

Haha, the latter is definitely not their only song about an aging creep preying on the young; if you view it more as writing in character than advocacy it's easier to take. There's a song on the Katy Lied album about a guy who shows porn in his basement to kids.

I'm in a small minority on Glamour Profession, it's always been one of my absolute least-favorite SD songs. Something about the synths I don't like, Fagen's vocal sounds even more strained than usual and a little grating to me.

The title track really has become such a favorite of newer fans, and I love it as well. It's somehow totally dated sound-wise (that Tom Scott saxophone!) but is just breathtaking in the quality of the instrumentation and arrangement, and those lyrics you could spend years imagining and trying to understand.

My favorite is probably Babylon Sisters, it has this kind of mellow menace, the striking way the horns punctuate the chill vibe. You have the legendary Bernard Purdie on drums doing the "Purdie Shuffle", the female backing vocal refrain of the title, the references to Los Angeles ("Drive west on Sunset to the sea") and San Francisco...such a great sense of place and a portrait of middle-aged, west coast malaise. For a band who has no shortage of classic album openers (Black Cow, Do It Again, Rikki Don't Lose That Number, Bodhisattva, Kid Charlamagne), this might be their best in terms of setting a vibe and tone both musically and lyrically.

 

[cobl04]

Haha yeah I went a bit early on that (and wanted to annoy you a little), was looking it up on Genius and I definitely should have known that it's a character and not them being creepy (looking at you, Iggy Pop, "Sixteen"), that's what the Dan do. Their whole catalogue is full of losers, creeps, liars and so on.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Wow, Steely Dan. I'm a pretty casual listener of SD, but I definitely appreciate and respect their music. My favorite songs from them are Peg and Reelin' in the Years. Like I said, casual.

Anyway, for the first (and sadly, last) time, I went to a Grateful Dead related concert. It only took 30 something years. Ticked a couple of boxes. Went to Fenway for the first time and the "Dead" for the first time. An amazing experience, to say the least. Although, the perpetual construction in Boston is fucking annoying. It was the Sunday 6/25/23 show for anyone that cares. I was very happy with the setlist. John Mayer is fucking incredible. Jerry would have been proud.

 

[Hewson]

. Although, the perpetual construction in Boston is fucking annoying.

Welcome to my world.

 

[cobl04]

Rina Sawayama is my fav new discovery in a long time.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Welcome to my world.

 

[phanan]

Well I tend to lean on the more purist side with this kind of thing, unless it's U2 where they clearly din't know what the hell they're doing in the 21st century re: sequencing. With my custom Beatles tracklistings I drop in new tracks without shifting the order of the other songs.

I'm definitely keeping Third World Man as a closer, even if it was a late addition and old outtake. It works perfectly there at the end and I don't think The Second Arrangement would be better. If you look at the original album side divisions, Babylon, Nineteen, and Glamour run roughly 18:30 minutes for side one, and Gaucho, Time, Rival, and Third run 19:30 for side two. If you trim the head and tail of that DAT recording to the song proper, it runs right around 5:30, which is the same length as Gaucho.

So to me, the main question to answer is whether to move Gaucho to "side one" (some people add a short, silent "pause" track on their playlists to mark the traditional break, and this is where I would put it), or to put Arrangement right after Glamour on S1, and then you preserve Gaucho as the S2 opener. I suppose it's a question of tempo and mood. My first impulse and attempt at the playlist was putting it as the penultimate track, between My Rival (which is the album's weakest, IMO) and Third, breaking up the two slower songs. I think Time Out of Mind, being a single, is a good poppy way to start S2 if one is thinking along those lines at all.

As I said before, Gaucho and Arrangement are equal length, so whatever you do, you wind up with an S1 at 24:00 and S2 at 19:30, slightly lopsided compared to most albums of the time (Aja and Royal Scam have only 1 minute disparities). Real purists will point out that old vinyl albums could only fit 23 minutes on each side, so that would likely mean booting Glamour to S2 and having to do a lot more switching to shrink the disparity and keep both sides 23 min and under, but as I said I don't want to get too crazy.

Would love to hear other suggestions!

Finally had some time to go through Gaucho and determine the best placement for this, and your first impulse is the best option in my opinion. It perfectly balances out the ending of the album with the slower songs. I considered it at the end of S1 but the tempo is too similar to Glamour and just doesn't work as well. And I like Gaucho ending the side anyway.

Also, the song has been getting the fan treatment these last few days. I think this person did a great job with the DAT recording; it's the best I've heard it.

https://archive.org/details/nichols-tapes

 

[DeVaul]

love the Dan!