US Politics XXXVIII: "Patriots" vs Reality

[MrsSpringsteen]

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

We got close to it. Hamilton actually wanted to be a dictator/king. Washington and Adams foiled his plans a few time.
Hamilton was one of the players behind the Newburgh conspiracy of angry and unpaid officers and soldiers that wanted to march on Congress at the end of the war. It was only with Washington’s timely and dramatic 11th hour intervention that stopped it.

Hamilton was behind a cockamamie scheme at the Philadelphia convention to centralize power in an elitist monarch. It’s speculated the reason why presidents have to be born in the US was to keep Hamilton out of the office.

Hamilton wanted to use the Whiskey Rebellion to hang his political enemies in western Pa and was again foiled by Washington. During the Adams administration, the cabinet, which were holdovers from the Washington admin were more loyal to Hamilton than Adams. During the Quasi War with France Hamilton had himself appointed second in command to an elderly and tired Washington who was called out of retirement to lead the army in the event of war.

Had John Adams not sacrificed his political career and standing with the Federalists, fatally dividing the party to negotiate and make peace with France, we may have seen a Hamiltonian dictatorship.

It's kind of amazing that he did all of that while rapping the entire time.

 

[phanan]

He certainly wasn’t giving away his shot.

 

[allaras]

 

[allaras]

More from Kristie Noam’s book… Evidently she stared down Kim Jong-Un, despite never meeting him. She also cancelled a meeting with Emmanuel Macron, which was news to his staff as she never had an appointment.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

More from Kristie Noam’s book… Evidently she stared down Kim Jong-Un, despite never meeting him. She also cancelled a meeting with Emmanuel Macron, which was news to his staff as she never had an appointment.

She seems to have subscribed fully to the Trump theory of "just make anything up because my supporters will believe anything I say"

 

[BEAL]

And might as well since there’s no consequence to telling a lie. There’ll be another one to follow. Shooting a puppy in the face tho….that may be where everyone comes together.

And below tweet is where my mind has been with this. If we didn’t have Biden, instead Trump the Middle East is in a full blown war and American troops probably on the ground.

I do not subscribe to this being a policy failure of Biden. Bibi is going to do what he wants knowing that the US can’t just up and abandon them or cut off any Aid/military assistance.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Didn't Kristi Noem build The Sphere all by herself too?

Female version of George Santos plus she's a puppy and goat killer. So qualified to be a GOP governor and Trump's VP, she fits right in.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I pray there will be a hostage release and a cease fire and an end to this atrocious war.

 

[BEAL]

I pray there will be a hostage release and a cease fire and an end to this atrocious war.

That does not benefit either Hamas or Bibi. Hamas couldn’t care less about Palestinians and their homes. The starvation tactic by the IDF was to try and force their hand to surrender. Was never gonna happen and now there’s famine with loads of more suffering to follow.

If the war ends then Israel can move forward with new elections and those in charge can be prosecuted for all the bullshit from before and during this war. It’s kinda the same position Trump is in….get elected to drop any charges

 

[BEAL]

There’s another interview with Tim Scott who refuses to the peaceful transfer of power. Stating at the end of the day Trump will be the 47th president

We are seeing the same script from 2020. Cast doubts on mail voting. Declare yourself the winner at 9pm est on election night

Then scream and yell that votes are still coming in.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Trump already said that in the Time interview, it will be deja vu all over again.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Ummmmmm....

 

[mikal]

It's looking like Trump is one slip up away from landing in jail for contempt.

I'm sure NYT will say "And here's why that's bad for Biden" but I don't really care. It'll be awesome.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

let's be real - he wants to be put in jail so that he can fundraise off of it and rally the base.

but it's neither good nor bad for Biden.

nobody is undecided. anyone who says they are? they're lying.

biden wins if he drives turnout. that's it. if he doesn't? he could lose.

 

[mikal]

let's be real - he wants to be put in jail so that he can fundraise off of it and rally the base.

but it's neither good nor bad for Biden.

nobody is undecided. anyone who says they are? they're lying.

biden wins if he drives turnout. that's it. if he doesn't? he could lose.

Yep. There is still that weird little group though, like 20% of Trump voters that say they would reconsider or not vote at all if Trump were convicted. I'm sure not all 20% will defect, but with such a slim margin, even a 3% defect could be the final blow to Trump.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

And might as well since there’s no consequence to telling a lie. There’ll be another one to follow. Shooting a puppy in the face tho….that may be where everyone comes together.

And below tweet is where my mind has been with this. If we didn’t have Biden, instead Trump the Middle East is in a full blown war and American troops probably on the ground.

I do not subscribe to this being a policy failure of Biden. Bibi is going to do what he wants knowing that the US can’t just up and abandon them or cut off any Aid/military assistance.

eventually most sane people come around to the idea that the world is not black and white.

unfortunately that usually comes with experience. youth is wasted on the young, as they say.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Yep. There is still that weird little group though, like 20% of Trump voters that say they would reconsider or not vote at all if Trump were convicted. I'm sure not all 20% will defect, but with such a slim margin, even a 3% defect could be the final blow to Trump.

i honestly don't believe that anyone who still wants to vote for Trump would defect in the case of a conviction.

i know there are polls that say otherwise - but, yea - if you're still on board at this point? you've done enough mental gymnastics in your own head to justify continued support that there's little to no turning back at this point.

but if there is a small percent that just stay home, like you said? yea - that could be huge in the swing states.

 

[mikal]

i honestly don't believe that anyone who still wants to vote for Trump would defect in the case of a conviction.

i know there are polls that say otherwise - but, yea - if you're still on board at this point? you've done enough mental gymnastics in your own head to justify continued support that there's little to no turning back at this point.

but if there is a small percent that just stay home, like you said? yea - that could be huge in the swing states.

Yeah, I think we agree there. I know a couple people who are Republican, always have been, who can't stand Trump. But they also hate Biden and want him out. That's the population I'm talking about. The ones who are like "fuck it, I'm not voting for either".

 

[mikal]

Oh, also, I was looking around the world wide web this morning and can't find a true answer to this.

Let's say Trump does get sentenced to prison and has to start serving prior to the election. Let's say he actually wins while he's in prison. Do we actually know the protocol for what happens next? Does he automatically get released? Or would he have to wait until he's inaugurated (would this be in prison?) and then he pardons himself?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Oh, also, I was looking around the world wide web this morning and can't find a true answer to this.

Let's say Trump does get sentenced to prison and has to start serving prior to the election. Let's say he actually wins while he's in prison. Do we actually know the protocol for what happens next? Does he automatically get released? Or would he have to wait until he's inaugurated (would this be in prison?) and then he pardons himself?

he can't pardon himself from a state conviction - so if NY convicts and sentences him to prison, he would have no ability to get himself out of it if he were to win election.

not really sure what would happen then. he would either have to be president from jail, or there would be some sort of extradition agreement. who the fuck knows and holy fuck let's hope we never have to find out.

 

[mikal]

he can't pardon himself from a state conviction - so if NY convicts and sentences him to prison, he would have no ability to get himself out of it if he were to win election.

not really sure what would happen then. he would either have to be president from jail, or there would be some sort of extradition agreement. who the fuck knows and holy fuck let's hope we never have to find out.

Haha for sure. Yeah, so that’s where this New York trial might also help. If the public knows that there’s no way he could get out of prison, even if elected, that could also turn off that small slither of voters that we were talking about earlier.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

President from jail? Good God if that's actually a thing America is no longer an idea Bono, it's the most disgusting disgraceful country on earth. Of course when you consider so many factors it already is, so why the hell not allow a President from jail?

I hope he gets jailed for contempt.

 

[womanfish]

Hamas agrees to ceasefire deal

 

[phanan]

Did anyone catch Biden on Howard Stern? You watch that and wonder how some people can possibly fathom that he's worse than Trump.

 

[BEAL]

he can't pardon himself from a state conviction - so if NY convicts and sentences him to prison, he would have no ability to get himself out of it if he were to win election.

not really sure what would happen then. he would either have to be president from jail, or there would be some sort of extradition agreement. who the fuck knows and holy fuck let's hope we never have to find out.

That's correct, no pardon power from federal level. Not sure if he could pressure state to grant pardon.

What's the timeframe for this NY trial? It's in it's 3rd week correct? Thinking 8-12 total weeks? Then jury deliberations.

Even if convicted he will appeal right away and he wouldn't be in jail/prison on appeal.

 

[mikal]

That's correct, no pardon power from federal level. Not sure if he could pressure state to grant pardon.

What's the timeframe for this NY trial? It's in it's 3rd week correct? Thinking 8-12 total weeks? Then jury deliberations.

Even if convicted he will appeal right away and he wouldn't be in jail/prison on appeal.

We're in the 3rd week. Most likely another month, then verdict. So probably looking at a June conviction. Plenty of time to throw him in prison before November.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

That's correct, no pardon power from federal level. Not sure if he could pressure state to grant pardon.

What's the timeframe for this NY trial? It's in it's 3rd week correct? Thinking 8-12 total weeks? Then jury deliberations.

Even if convicted he will appeal right away and he wouldn't be in jail/prison on appeal.

Still no Stormy Daniels or Michael Cohen - I imagine they are the final prosecution witnesses.

I have zero idea how many witnesses the defense could possibly have other than Trump himself, which would be a disaster. I'm sure they'll have someone but all of the known major players are in the prosecution side. So I have to imagine the defense won't be as long as the prosecution.

So it's entirely possible we get to the jury before Memorial Day... but more likely just after.

Sentencing is typically 90 days or so after conviction. I have no idea if they can request that to move faster, for I an not an honest broker. But if that holds true he'd be sentenced in September (assuming as guilty verdict).

So if he's sent to jail, even on a short sentence, there's no way he wouldn't be in prison on election day and likely still there by January 20, 2025. Fun!

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

To add - after doing my one research (like Aaron Rodgers) it does seem as if the Supreme Court could potentially overturn state convictions based on issues if constitutionality.

I'm not sure what legitimate argument they would have here - but it would be something to watch out for.

I'm not sure our democracy survives a imprisoned president being let free by a supreme Court that he personally picked.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Still no Stormy Daniels or Michael Cohen - I imagine they are the final prosecution witnesses.

welp - here we go.